Friday, April 14, 2017

Edmonton Journal Yesterday at 3:01pm · It would mean re-opening the P3 contract to build the Valley Line between downtown and Mill Woods

It would mean re-opening the P3 contract to build the Valley Line between downtown and Mill Woods
Raising the Valley Line LRT above five intersections in the Bonnie Doon and Holyrood areas would add up to $220 million, according to a new city report…
EDMONTONJOURNAL.COM
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Julie Ali Edmonton City Council did a poor job with the LRT. It could have been made underground or elevated at critical points but the folks on city council were too busy building downtown and the hole in the ground Katz Arena to worry about the ordinary citizens. It's amazing that we get tall tall towers downtown approved and we can't get approval of a decent LRT system.
LikeReply3 mins
Toni Alarcon Is it worth the extra money?...you bet it is!...either get that line underground or get it up in the air!...the cost of ridiculous traffic grid locks on the drivers would be worse!
David Tremblay Spend the money. No more Kingsway LRT designs anymore. Above ground or below, don't cut corners on this project like you did with KW.
Jesse Dixon Yes it's worth the money let's act like a real grown up city and do something right.
Sean David Do it right or don't do it at all. The city has destroyed the Southgate and Kingsway areas already and is going to do the same to Millwoods.
Sarah Knutson having any LRT line on the same level of major streets is just silly, you will never stop all people commuting to work or using their own cars, so adding more lights and stops your also adding congestion to an already busy area. Every major city has an...See More
LikeReply16Yesterday at 3:18pmEdited
Vinod John Yes it's worth the extra money and should be throughout the LRT route. The existing LRT model is the worst in the world that makes hundreds of vehicles wait and waste time and gas for 15 people to pass through. Repeat that hundreds of times every day!
LikeReply9Yesterday at 3:35pmEdited
David James Fascinating. Four decades ago, Edmonton decided to build its LRT underground through its downtown. Calgary, to save money, built theirs at grade through downtown. With the savings, Calgary got a bigger initial network. Its LRT was also more visible, and arguably more useful for mid-workday jaunts (eg for going to meetings elsewhere in DT Calgary). As a result, ridership grew faster in Calgary than in Edmonton, and accordingly so did its network. Transit ridership in Calgary is substantially higher there than in Edmonton. Calgary, by accident, took the better decision. And yet according to many commenters here, applying their "do it right, go underground or overground" logic, it was Edmonton and not Calgary that took the better decision.

If Edmonton spends $220M on elevating an LRT line, that's $220M it can't spend on building extra trackage elsewhere. That's opportunity cost, folks, and part of the opportunity cost of spending more to raise or sink rapid transit is lower ridership than you could otherwise get.
Frank Huang Yet, does the Calgary system come bundled with botched signal and crossing implementations that this city is somehow capable of doing? By causing additional inconveniences, that causes public inconvenience that reflects negatively on the whole LRT system. 

If the city could somehow build at-grade without creating a new Kingsway situation (many seemed unconvinced) and it's cost effective then do it. The Metro Line reportedly cost at least $665 million, with unknown amounts wasted on the whole Thales fiasco and fixing the signalling system + a price tag of $95 million to fix the traffic situation it caused. Would $220M spent on elevating the line prevent these type of problems? By all means go ahead
Jennifer Trudel Calgary's layout is much much different than edmontons.
UnlikeReply217 hrsEdited
Rhys Davies Calgary is building the Green Line underground through downtown.
LikeReply3 hrs
David James Rhys Davies Ya, because it's going N-S where the block lengths are insufficient to accomodate platforms.
LikeReply3 hrs
Julie Ali David James Calgary's system seems to work and ours does not. I don't entirely understand why but it appears to me that the city cheaped out.
LikeReplyJust now
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Leopold Mc Oh god I hope not! Other than the intersection at 82 avenue, this is not a high traffic area. Particularly east-west, which is the only problem it would solve. 4 of those 5 intersections only lead into/out of the mall. The traffic, roads and mall activity are not comparable to Kingsway. This is 220 million waste of money for an ugly 'solution' to a minor problem.
Paul Lucas It has to be done there are so many maistakes being made.... Dont forget Elise Stolte when its at ground level every utility has to be relocated beyond an above ground track is laid... What is the cost of that for power phone water sewer and communicat...See More
Daniel Aquilon Brochu Who did Dave Sutherland talk to? I'm from Holyrood and I'm most definitely worried about the traffic this will cause. Who wouldn't? It's going to significantly slow down everyone's daily commutes. It will probably double mine. Any way to makes sure traffic flows smoothly is worth looking at investing in.
Steven Owen Elevated will be the only option. Anyone thinking it will only cost $220M to go underground is dreaming.

Comparing Edmonton and Calgary is ridiculous. Calgary is running into the same issues today as Edmonton. 
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Kathleen Rae Yes! It will cost more but look at the terrible driving conditions around kingsway mall! That used to be my favourite mall, but I hate going there with all the tracks and constantly waiting for the LRT to pass.
Carl A. Busch Do it right or don't bother doing it at all.
LikeReply9Yesterday at 3:22pmEdited
Marek Scooter Kociolek Raise it up, and add density to the areas around the station. Get rid of Bonnie Doon Mall, and integrate it with mixed use residential/commercial/professional. That will make it a town center, rather than just a place to catch a train.
Randy J. Sexsmith Back when they decided to start expanding the lrt line south of he university is when they should have put in skytrains. Also the other new line that goes to Nait. That groups of alderman's and the mayor should have considered 50 years into the future ...See More
Jeffery Nichols Would it be cheaper to run the LRT at ground level and build bridges or tunnels across the intersection for cars?
LikeReply3Yesterday at 3:35pmEdited
Skyler Stratyos My first thought is: How would an elevated track in Bonnie Doon affect a future LRT extension to the Old Strathcona area (i.e. the central area LRT circulator)?
My second thought is: There's probably other locations that would benefit more from elevating the tracks than this location, such as the Kingsway area, or 178 Street at West Edmonton Mall.
LikeReply2Yesterday at 3:45pmEdited
Brad Holben If this counsel has not learned from past mistakes, then they should all get booted next election. Enough is enough with with this counsel royally messing stuff like this up.
Julie Ali We should change the folks on city council at every election. Just keeps folks on their toes.
LikeReplyJust now
This comment will also be posted to edmontonjournal.com.
Anmarie Jones Why don't they learn from the Asian countries? The Train in Japan and China are mostly elevated and run at lightening speed and the views are usually spectacular. Pay now or pay dearly later. Elevated the tracks get it right now that it is still possible. Think of all the local construction jobs you will create as well. We all complained about Rogers place now look what it did for downtown
LikeReply213 hrsEdited
Steven David Graham I really am ok with extra tax dollars going to a raised line. This will make it so much better. Please please i beg of you. Get the train in the air or underground lol.
David Webber This is the most encouraging thing I've ever heard about the LRT! Whoever proposed this has VISION!
Now, can we please elevate the RIDICULOUS disasters at Kingsway Avenue, 111th Avenue, 106th Street, and Princess Elizabeth Avenue and at University Avenue. NO MORE STREET LEVEL CROSSINGS! EVER!!
LikeReply14 hrsEdited
Darrel Kerr It's worth the extra money just look at the nait line that should have been under ground or above ground way too much traffic for ground level.
Rhys Davies I'd like to see a way to provide safer access for pedestrian traffic along the LRT. Can an underground walkway be built under 83 Street between Bonnie Doon Mall and Vimy Ridge school? It seems to work well at McKernan. The city is building a new bike bridge on Connors Road. If we want more walking and cycling, make it safer for pedestrians.
LikeReply3 hrs
Sherry Stewart Squire Do it right. East Edmonton will be worse than Southgate - trying to "jam a train" into existing old neighborhoods and small roadways is poor planning and poor judgement in a hurry to get it done. It is surprising that the traffic issues are discussed...See More
LikeReply3 hrs
Randy Kish I often wonder why the City of Edmonton feels the need that rapid transit, bicycle lanes, pedestrian access always have to compete with automobile traffic instead of complimenting one another as a means of moving around this city. Another sign that Edmonton comnsists of a bunch of hicks......
LikeReply10 hrs
Darren Pohl Absolutely, spend the money and do it right or don't do it. The 30 seconds time saving for the LRT is not the issue, its the annual 10's of thousands of cars sitting and idling while waiting for the LRT that bugs me. Why build public transit that cause...See More
LikeReply12 hrs
Kevin Stevenson Even though it'll cost more $$, I personally think that Edmonton really needs to go back to the drawing board and redo the Nait/ Kingsway lrt station/ line. Its pathetic and silly at how many mistakes were made and the consequences of those mistakes. We certainly don't need that many darn lights within a few minutes/ seconds of each other
Troy Pavlek for Ward 11 It's important to remember that the Valley Line waits at red lights like the rest of traffic. It doesn't pre-empt lights and cause huge delays like at Southgate or Kingsway or 114th.

And remember that the entire point of choosing this low-floor slower
...See More
Donald Melnick Waiting for them to run the west leg down Stony Plain Rd
Aline Neveu With all of the delays it'll be $220 million anyway. May as well do it right.
Jeff Gravél Definitely should be elevated or underground. It's 2017. Surface trains are so 1800s.
Lannie E. A. Boos It's not a LRT it's a tram or street car, it will be running with traffic. No reason to elevate the line
Cris Basualdo-Moses I have heard that cut and cover is a better option than elevation or tunneling.
Heather Workman I'll weigh in on this one...it has been a real pain in the buttox gaining access to city reports
Todd Mackenzie Above or below grade. Those are the only options.
Clayton Coroon Small price to pay to avoid 30 minute delays every day
Darrell Struth So what, get the LRT off the roads!
Evan T. Adnams People who would drive 83rd now would likely be able to take the train instead, traffic win 
Rhys Davies This area of town will be the next one to increase in population. If done properly, we'll see an improved tax base.
Shawn Ginn Nutters will just borrow some more money from the world bank.
Jesse Dixon Anyone that thinks this is a bad idea isn't riding the LRT anyway they are short bus material.
Neil JP Stephens Council is running a communist state.

Voting on big ticket items should be the new norm.
LikeReply8 hrs
Lindsay Bueckert If we can afford a $600m~ arena, we can afford this for some proper public transit options.
LikeReply22 hrsEdited
Stöephen Hoppenstadt Like seeing the Target in the picture. Good reminder of foolhardy visions.
Overheard in the Planning Department Build it, but charge the cost to the drivers who complained about the surface route.
Glenn Wallace And it the right thing to do. The city is too shortsighted on these projects. Build them for the long run!
LikeReply10 hrs
John Driedger Take the six houses out and keep the 4 lanes for traffic and add additional LRT lines on 83rd St. South of 82 Ave. LIKE ORIGINALLY PLANNNED. Currently they want LRT to share S/N lanes with traffic, which is nuts. I told them traffic would be nuts a year ago, but who am I. And now they are realizing it? They look like idiots.
LikeReply11 hrs




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